I think the whole Disco rise and fall saga shows that when something becomes so dominantly mainstream to the point it sidelines other attitudes, voices, tastes, thoughts, and expressions, it creates a subculture that eventually unites into a backlash. The less hegemonic American culture became over the next two decades, that seemed to happen less and less. Genres and tastes would have their high-points and then they would just fizzle into something new. In a way, one could say the rise and fall of woke showed a similar trajectory in that it tried using corporate America and political parties to bring Americans into hegemony underneath the woke umbrella and it brewed a serious backlash; Trump obviously being one of the chief figureheads.
As a long time independent voter, I thought this past election would cause the 50% of us who are not Democrats or Republicans to conclude that it was just too hard to pick the lesser of two evils. However, the open border policy, rising crime rate, censorship, lawfare, and overspending was just too much to tolerate. Consequently, independent voters selected Trump.
Once again, the Hollywood establishment demonstrated their selfishness by backing Harris who they believed would protect their financial interests. Without protection from federal regulators, large companies will eventually buy the money losing studios. Without protection from the IRS, the various tax evasion plans will be exposed.
Once again, we are favorably impressed with Roy Price's analysis.
Beautiful put! I’m sure the studios will be cleaning house of the woke infested Executive and creatives with a sigh of relief that they can go back to making main stream commercial product and we can laugh again. Good luck Roy there’s a studio waiting.
Ill bet this was the most rewarding substack post (or any post for that matter) that you have ever written. Happy to have you back on the scene. Come make some productions in Georgia …we need you.
I have been touring the US with my docs since 2019 and saw first hand how underserved audiences were. Treated like dummies who cannot think for themselves, let alone have something to offer to the world and us filmmakers. I think every filmmaker should tour with their films, sit in the back of a theater and soak up the wisdom from conversations in Q&As.
I think pieces like these are instructive, because they always ignore the key element in making art: empathy. Roger Ebert once said that movies are empathy machines. Nowhere in this piece does it actually describe the complete lack of empathy these supposed "forgotten viewers" have shown through their votes towards people different than them.
On one level, I understand the notion that people feel Hollywood has abandoned them. I watch movies about regular Americans all the time, and I get the sense they make regular American viewers feel like martians. It's just a lack of a recognizable reality for most people.
But what's the answer to this? When have movies ever reflected a recognizable reality? Are you telling me a movie of yesteryear like "Pretty Woman" that achieved mainstream crossover success connects with real people? What of "Coming To America"? "Titanic"? Some of the biggest movies ever made are not radically different to the movies of today as to be alienating to modern suburban American audiences.
What would this new Hollywood that plays to Trump voters be like? Would it have more movies about faith? Would it have more movies about realistic middle-class communities? I honestly want to know, what are these movies that will bring right wing culture warriors back to the movies? Don't say it's gotta be something like "Sound Of Freedom", a xenophobic slice of paranoia boosting a hogwash story of a fraud and phony-turned hero. That helps no one.
Movies about faith? Sure. But they have to be serious. The movies made about Christians today play exclusively to Christians, depicting all-Christian worldviews that largely ignore or token-ify non-Christians, illustrating a worldview that isn't out of line with Christian Nationalism (and irrelevant to our everyday life, when we go to jobs and work side-by-side with people of varied faiths). How do we make better faith movies? I'm onboard with that, but are audiences? Talk to pastors all over the country, they'll tell you they're being approached by their flock to be lectured on which parts of the Bible today are and are not relevant. Everyday Joes coming out of the pews to tell priests that Jesus wouldn't actually feel that way about the homeless, Jesus would actually smite homosexuals, Jesus would not turn the other cheek at this or that. Christianity, like all American religions, has become a Rorschach blot to its own followers.
Should they make more movies for gun owners? Obviously not an under-served demographic, quit playing.
Any talk of Hollywood movies being anti-male, well -- good Lord, let's not go there, that's not a thing.
You're talking about an ideological divide with no thoughts on how to fix it. Is it maybe because there's a whole chunk of the country that's lost and will remain lost? A whole chunk of the country awash in grievance? Look at the top podcasts -- so many of them are right-wing political, but they're not based in meat-and-potatoes stuff, it's all culture-warrior nonsense. And it's so popular that you have to conclude people are listening to this for entertainment. They're listening to anger and fury and resentment, because that's how they are entertained. That's FUN to them. You're telling me that's not a bigger problem then "Oh no, we're not making movies for Mr. And Mrs. Joe Schmo"? People are blowing their stacks, showing their righteous anger, as a PASTIME. It's fun for them. And you think these people should be courted by actual artists? That a screenwriter needs to get in the ring with these half-wits to entertain all these rejected men?
Maybe it's because "woke" isn't a thing. It once had a revolutionary purpose, that word, decades ago..Now, it seems to be used for anything that doesn't center straight white men. Anything that appears ideological simply because it's an alternative to the white male patriarchy that is -- still -- our dominant mode of storytelling. It's a slur that means nothing, only used to denote what someone hates as opposed to what something believes. "Anti-woke" is also not a thing. We think of something like transgender issues as "woke", but if the average American confronts a transgender person, more often than not they will be friendly and accommodating, if only to get by. There will be hatred too, which is something we have to fight to eradicate. But removed from all the fonts and posts and gifs of the internet, most people treat people like people. It's only that angry right wing sphere that wants to turn transgender people into a walking issue.
Also, for the cheap seats, Donald Trump committed crimes. We need to stop looking for grey areas here. Everything he confessed to, everything he said to explain away the accusations, was a confession. He is undoubtedly a criminal. Why should we humor those who think otherwise because of their outrage media of choice? THAT'S a failure of media.
Interesting that you bring up Disco Demolition, one of my all-time favorite sports stories. You claim it was evidenced that Disco was dead. Except that, historically, it was well-known to be a knee-jerk gatekeeping rockist reaction to dance music preferred by the marginalized, a desperate grab for the guitars over glitter and Disco balls. Disco Demolition still lives on in the sad men who remain protective of rock music of the 80's and 90's despite rock still being made today by excellent and widely-ignored artists. You won't get them to listen to Travis Scott or Da Baby, but they also won't cue up any recent Wilco when they can take their one thousandth listen of Tom Petty's "Won't Back Down". And you think these people, so terrified of anything different, should be coddled and marketed to?
You wanna say that Hollywood screwed up by ignoring entire demographics? Ok. Then talk about how you can bring them back. And without the transparent pandering. I'm curious to know.
I think it just means getting back to classic storytelling where the themes and the expression of the artist take center-stage over agenda-pushing, right or left. The movies that make you think (or not think at all, a la PRETTY WOMAN) instead of the movies that tell you what to think. I also agree that a huge portion of the market has been consuming outrage culture, but some of that is in reaction to alienation while another is in reaction to social media algorithms (this is the biggest problem, I would say). But I think that industry would likely take a hit substantially if the broader culture moved into an apolitical space that entertained the masses with thoughtful stories and music while the makers of those stories were more concerned with being symbol of unity instead of being a political advocate.
Name me an anti-male movie. And I mean genuinely anti-male, not "the villain is a man". Because yes, I think the "thousands of men" think that something is anti-male when it simply doesn't center males.
Look at the top performing movies and television series, aired or streaming, and most are led by straight white male heroes. I'd love to know where all this "woke" content is that's supposedly being shoved down throats. Meanwhile, the very existence of a black or female lead in many shows causes mass review bombing. It's the age of grievances, and none are more aggrieved than the very ones who have always been, and remain, center stage.
Anti-wokeness is more aggressive and demeaning than wokeness, which stands for giving a voice to those who have been historically oppressed and silenced. Perhaps the average american should partake in more soul-searching and read more history in an effort to understand what “the intellectuals” base their opinions on. Being anti-something is easy and requires very little brain activity, but it is not as satisfying as learning about the world and those who make up the fabric of our society.
Another way to look at it is, "woke" is simply nothing but the political correctness of the 1960s/1970s, but with internet, "smart" phones and social media.
A repeat of the 1980s seems unlikely though. More probable is a repeat of the 1920s and 1930s.
So you're saying that everyone really loves woke and will come around in a couple years after they are chest beating exhausted. Because everyone l9ves disco. Disco is fucking amazing.
Fantastic piece, Roy. This is the end of an era. Let's create better art to celebrate American culture as the country turns 250.
I think the whole Disco rise and fall saga shows that when something becomes so dominantly mainstream to the point it sidelines other attitudes, voices, tastes, thoughts, and expressions, it creates a subculture that eventually unites into a backlash. The less hegemonic American culture became over the next two decades, that seemed to happen less and less. Genres and tastes would have their high-points and then they would just fizzle into something new. In a way, one could say the rise and fall of woke showed a similar trajectory in that it tried using corporate America and political parties to bring Americans into hegemony underneath the woke umbrella and it brewed a serious backlash; Trump obviously being one of the chief figureheads.
As a long time independent voter, I thought this past election would cause the 50% of us who are not Democrats or Republicans to conclude that it was just too hard to pick the lesser of two evils. However, the open border policy, rising crime rate, censorship, lawfare, and overspending was just too much to tolerate. Consequently, independent voters selected Trump.
Once again, the Hollywood establishment demonstrated their selfishness by backing Harris who they believed would protect their financial interests. Without protection from federal regulators, large companies will eventually buy the money losing studios. Without protection from the IRS, the various tax evasion plans will be exposed.
Once again, we are favorably impressed with Roy Price's analysis.
Beautiful put! I’m sure the studios will be cleaning house of the woke infested Executive and creatives with a sigh of relief that they can go back to making main stream commercial product and we can laugh again. Good luck Roy there’s a studio waiting.
Yes a trenchant piece and God bless you for speaking truth. What a novel idea..artistic expression unencumbered by politics.
Ill bet this was the most rewarding substack post (or any post for that matter) that you have ever written. Happy to have you back on the scene. Come make some productions in Georgia …we need you.
I have been touring the US with my docs since 2019 and saw first hand how underserved audiences were. Treated like dummies who cannot think for themselves, let alone have something to offer to the world and us filmmakers. I think every filmmaker should tour with their films, sit in the back of a theater and soak up the wisdom from conversations in Q&As.
Thank you for your bold and insightful writing!
Well put, Roy!
Well said, Roy. Hopefully 2025 will be The Year of the Comeback.
I think pieces like these are instructive, because they always ignore the key element in making art: empathy. Roger Ebert once said that movies are empathy machines. Nowhere in this piece does it actually describe the complete lack of empathy these supposed "forgotten viewers" have shown through their votes towards people different than them.
On one level, I understand the notion that people feel Hollywood has abandoned them. I watch movies about regular Americans all the time, and I get the sense they make regular American viewers feel like martians. It's just a lack of a recognizable reality for most people.
But what's the answer to this? When have movies ever reflected a recognizable reality? Are you telling me a movie of yesteryear like "Pretty Woman" that achieved mainstream crossover success connects with real people? What of "Coming To America"? "Titanic"? Some of the biggest movies ever made are not radically different to the movies of today as to be alienating to modern suburban American audiences.
What would this new Hollywood that plays to Trump voters be like? Would it have more movies about faith? Would it have more movies about realistic middle-class communities? I honestly want to know, what are these movies that will bring right wing culture warriors back to the movies? Don't say it's gotta be something like "Sound Of Freedom", a xenophobic slice of paranoia boosting a hogwash story of a fraud and phony-turned hero. That helps no one.
Movies about faith? Sure. But they have to be serious. The movies made about Christians today play exclusively to Christians, depicting all-Christian worldviews that largely ignore or token-ify non-Christians, illustrating a worldview that isn't out of line with Christian Nationalism (and irrelevant to our everyday life, when we go to jobs and work side-by-side with people of varied faiths). How do we make better faith movies? I'm onboard with that, but are audiences? Talk to pastors all over the country, they'll tell you they're being approached by their flock to be lectured on which parts of the Bible today are and are not relevant. Everyday Joes coming out of the pews to tell priests that Jesus wouldn't actually feel that way about the homeless, Jesus would actually smite homosexuals, Jesus would not turn the other cheek at this or that. Christianity, like all American religions, has become a Rorschach blot to its own followers.
Should they make more movies for gun owners? Obviously not an under-served demographic, quit playing.
Any talk of Hollywood movies being anti-male, well -- good Lord, let's not go there, that's not a thing.
You're talking about an ideological divide with no thoughts on how to fix it. Is it maybe because there's a whole chunk of the country that's lost and will remain lost? A whole chunk of the country awash in grievance? Look at the top podcasts -- so many of them are right-wing political, but they're not based in meat-and-potatoes stuff, it's all culture-warrior nonsense. And it's so popular that you have to conclude people are listening to this for entertainment. They're listening to anger and fury and resentment, because that's how they are entertained. That's FUN to them. You're telling me that's not a bigger problem then "Oh no, we're not making movies for Mr. And Mrs. Joe Schmo"? People are blowing their stacks, showing their righteous anger, as a PASTIME. It's fun for them. And you think these people should be courted by actual artists? That a screenwriter needs to get in the ring with these half-wits to entertain all these rejected men?
Maybe it's because "woke" isn't a thing. It once had a revolutionary purpose, that word, decades ago..Now, it seems to be used for anything that doesn't center straight white men. Anything that appears ideological simply because it's an alternative to the white male patriarchy that is -- still -- our dominant mode of storytelling. It's a slur that means nothing, only used to denote what someone hates as opposed to what something believes. "Anti-woke" is also not a thing. We think of something like transgender issues as "woke", but if the average American confronts a transgender person, more often than not they will be friendly and accommodating, if only to get by. There will be hatred too, which is something we have to fight to eradicate. But removed from all the fonts and posts and gifs of the internet, most people treat people like people. It's only that angry right wing sphere that wants to turn transgender people into a walking issue.
Also, for the cheap seats, Donald Trump committed crimes. We need to stop looking for grey areas here. Everything he confessed to, everything he said to explain away the accusations, was a confession. He is undoubtedly a criminal. Why should we humor those who think otherwise because of their outrage media of choice? THAT'S a failure of media.
Interesting that you bring up Disco Demolition, one of my all-time favorite sports stories. You claim it was evidenced that Disco was dead. Except that, historically, it was well-known to be a knee-jerk gatekeeping rockist reaction to dance music preferred by the marginalized, a desperate grab for the guitars over glitter and Disco balls. Disco Demolition still lives on in the sad men who remain protective of rock music of the 80's and 90's despite rock still being made today by excellent and widely-ignored artists. You won't get them to listen to Travis Scott or Da Baby, but they also won't cue up any recent Wilco when they can take their one thousandth listen of Tom Petty's "Won't Back Down". And you think these people, so terrified of anything different, should be coddled and marketed to?
You wanna say that Hollywood screwed up by ignoring entire demographics? Ok. Then talk about how you can bring them back. And without the transparent pandering. I'm curious to know.
Fromtheyardtothearthouse.substack.com
I think it just means getting back to classic storytelling where the themes and the expression of the artist take center-stage over agenda-pushing, right or left. The movies that make you think (or not think at all, a la PRETTY WOMAN) instead of the movies that tell you what to think. I also agree that a huge portion of the market has been consuming outrage culture, but some of that is in reaction to alienation while another is in reaction to social media algorithms (this is the biggest problem, I would say). But I think that industry would likely take a hit substantially if the broader culture moved into an apolitical space that entertained the masses with thoughtful stories and music while the makers of those stories were more concerned with being symbol of unity instead of being a political advocate.
"Any talk of Hollywood movies being anti-male, well -- good Lord, let's not go there, that's not a thing."
Oh, wow. I'm glad you've solved that by not thinking about it. All the thousands of men who say otherwise must be making it up.
Name me an anti-male movie. And I mean genuinely anti-male, not "the villain is a man". Because yes, I think the "thousands of men" think that something is anti-male when it simply doesn't center males.
Fromtheyardtothearthouse.substack.com
Look at the top performing movies and television series, aired or streaming, and most are led by straight white male heroes. I'd love to know where all this "woke" content is that's supposedly being shoved down throats. Meanwhile, the very existence of a black or female lead in many shows causes mass review bombing. It's the age of grievances, and none are more aggrieved than the very ones who have always been, and remain, center stage.
Anti-wokeness is more aggressive and demeaning than wokeness, which stands for giving a voice to those who have been historically oppressed and silenced. Perhaps the average american should partake in more soul-searching and read more history in an effort to understand what “the intellectuals” base their opinions on. Being anti-something is easy and requires very little brain activity, but it is not as satisfying as learning about the world and those who make up the fabric of our society.
Another way to look at it is, "woke" is simply nothing but the political correctness of the 1960s/1970s, but with internet, "smart" phones and social media.
A repeat of the 1980s seems unlikely though. More probable is a repeat of the 1920s and 1930s.
🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
So you're saying that everyone really loves woke and will come around in a couple years after they are chest beating exhausted. Because everyone l9ves disco. Disco is fucking amazing.
https://marlowe1.substack.com/p/job-chapter-17
Mostly great. But Hamas ≠ Palestinians & Ashkenazis ≠ Semites.